indicator question

[Badger]

Has anyone tried LED bulbs?
I'm looking at various ways to help the electrical system on my ES.
To help conserve (AGM) battery power (for the starter) so it doesn't need to live on a trickle charger, I'm trying LED bulbs. I've now tried 2 different electronic flasher units, both 2 pin, designed to register the very low milliamps power usage but neither work properly.  Just like the 8 or 9FL unit, they create a set of hazard flashers.
Anyone know how I can get this to work?

p.s. Thanks for the welcome Ed Sidders, I cleaned up the earths some weeks back and it did show an improvement.

[Ed Sidders]

Guessing that yours is similar to mine--
Carefully look at your schematic...The indicator light (tattletail)on the panel between the tach and spedo is connected between the left and right hand flasher ckt..What is happening is that the power is going thru this lamp to power up both sides of the indicators...This happens with the led's because of the very low current draw of the lamps,on the turn signal ckt the indicator works thru the filament of the opposite,unpowered side turn lamps to ground..I can't see where a power savings on the directional indicators would help very much unless you ride around with them on....I can see where a led tail/brake light would be benefical as well as turning off the headlight / taillight in the daytime...Outside of adding tattle tale lights for each side and removing the existing tattletale bulb there is not much that could be easily done..

Come to think about it you might replacr the tattletale bulb with a led and add a resistor load on each side----nah Ain't worth the trouble.

If you don't need the tattletale just remove the bulb and the lights will work normally. On the turn signal light fixtures themselves go inside and run a real ground wire from the bulb socket mounting screw to the stalk ,the flash plating on the housing is a poor conductor when it gets older.
I don't understand why you need to keep a trickle charge on your battery , check for 14+ volts across the fully charged battery at 3-4k rpm .

As a test fully charge the battery and leave one lead disconnected and see if it stays up or put a ma meter in the lead with the switch OFF and see if there is any leakage You should have a 3 phase alternator possibly a bad rectifier diode could be your problem or bad bullet connector on top of your transmission where it all plugs together........Tex

[steviepope2000]

Badger, I have LED rear lights and LED flasher lamps. The rear setup definately lowers the power drain and while the indicators may make little difference to the battery, they (and rear setup) definately are far brighter and visible than standard lamps.
The answer is a 3 pin electronic flasher unit and a little bit of simple rewiring. As I've fitted '99 Thunderbird switchgear to my bars it means I also have fully functioning 4 way hazard flashers.
Stevie.P, 79T140E.

Ed, where the hell did the expression 'tattletale' come from, you just made it up, right?

[Ed Sidders]

Stevie
Tattletail is a term we used for any kind of indicator light , AKA Idiot Light, etc. Down in the swamps where I grew up we had our own names for lots of things......    Came with the territory , we had to learn about how things worked without much outside help.....

Seems like a lot of trouble for direction signals..another approach I thought about is to put a load resistor across one bulb on each side,that would make the system work OK with stock configuration and less current draw....Tex

 

[steviepope2000]

Ed, it's no harder than adding resistors, a couple of hours including removing and refitting the fuel tank. You don't need to be an electrical expert to do it. As you add no components to the system (1 single wire & swop the flasher relay) it is (in my opinion) less technical than adding load resistors and it also isn't adding 4 more potential failure components.
Stevie.P

[Jef Davies]

I am just gonna say that I will definitely run LEDS ..all light bulbs are not what they used to be --JJ

[Ed Sidders]

I must have misunderstood the original problem..I thought the turn signals were working like 4 way flashers in either left or right position and that the 2 pin or the 3 pin flasher worked but either one didn't help with the problem of all 4 flashing together....   

[steviepope2000]

Ed, I don't think you misunderstood, I read it the same. You offered a solution and I offered an alternative one that I have done on my bike. Badger said he only tried 2-pin flasher units. The electronic 3 pin I have fitted can power mixed types of lamp (the warning lamp comes off the 3rd pin), which was the solution to there not yet being LED versions of the tiny warning lamps.
Stevie.P

[Badger]

1.Thanks for the input fellas. Looks like I need to clarify a few things.
I've had various Jap/European bikes but never really had to work on them, or get to know them in intimate detail . This T140ES is opening up a whoooole new learning curve. I ask questions, and then attempt to do things in some logical order, but sometimes it seems a lot to take in. Please go slow for the mentally challenged. Duh! :

2. Why am I doing this?  OK. Since getting the bike, electrics wise, I put in new AGM battery, plugs, resistive caps, HT leads. Coils are fine. I assume triple Zener and rectifier are ok, as the bike runs well. Now the weather's warm it starts by third kick - seems ok, occasionally first time!. It fires first time on the button ONLY after the kickstart has been cranked twice. It's only just topped 16000 miles, so I'm guessing that there are no Sprag Clutch bearing issues yet.
It's had a few long runs (I rarely get to 4000 RPM though- don't need to rush anymore ) but the battery when checked afterwards has been between 12.8 and 13.04 V. I assume it needs that 14V  Ed mentioned, to spin up the starter motor. So I thought, what SIMPLE, inexpensive or not too complicated things can I do to help conserve battery power. (Some people keep theirs on a trickle charger all the time and have no starting problems).

(a) change rear light/brake light bulb. Done. (b) Indicator bulbs,(rears are LED, currently(!) fronts normal. (c) Beefier starter & battery leads. I'm in the process of discovering 'heavy duty' soldering.
Simply hoping that any or all this will help the starter spin more easily, to fire first time?

I wasn't looking to get a set of hazard flashers, I don't need them exactly, it's just that was the result of 4 LED bulbs which I understood should work with the correct 2 pin electronic flasher unit, without any need for resistors (I didn't want to go there). 2 normal bulbs + 2 led output sufficient power whichever flasher unit used, 9FL or electronic.

Ed, I was quite confused by the whole tattletale thing, but it made me laugh. Bike has the late black Lucas switchgear/integrated clutch lever. Hella plastic housing indicators, green wire to bulb, and a black (earth?) wire in there too. With the first flasher unit I tried it made the warning light dim, so I sort of get what you say about both sides going through the warning light.

Stevie, so instead of the 2 pin flasher unit, I need a 3 pin (I've seen the red Ripca ones) to connect the green/red warning light wire to? I'm sure it's simple, but could you clarify please? (If I had an avatar it would be Homer Simpson).
On ebay there are some 12V Ba7s white led bulbs sold by ACEparts. Could I replace the warning light bulb with this and everything work?

Thanks again,
Badger

[steviepope2000]

Stevie, so instead of the 2 pin flasher unit, I need a 3 pin (I've seen the red Ripca ones) to connect the green/red warning light wire to? I'm sure it's simple, but could you clarify please? (If I had an avatar it would be Homer Simpson).
On ebay there are some 12V Ba7s white led bulbs sold by ACEparts. Could I replace the warning light bulb with this and everything work?
Thanks again,
Badger

Hi Badger,
Apologies for the delay in replying. I thought it might be a worthwhile idea (feedback welcome) to take a bit of extra time and do it fairly concisely and have placed it in the modification folder, although it's not a query or problem, but hopefully a solution.
While an LED warning light would make the system complete, it wouldn't solve the issue, which is about the load on the relay, also the earth system would probably still need modifying as I describe to become independant.
Have you just fitted a standard 21/5 LED bulb to the rear? I tried this at first but immediately realised that as it faced downwards it put out no light intensity to the rear.
Stevie.P